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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s a Document?</title>
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	<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/</link>
	<description>because technology is just another ecosystem</description>
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		<title>By: tecosystems &#187; Google Wave: Tsunami or Microwave? The Q&#38;A</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-552692</link>
		<dc:creator>tecosystems &#187; Google Wave: Tsunami or Microwave? The Q&#38;A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-552692</guid>
		<description>[...] becoming obsolete in a variety of settings. Here&#8217;s how I&#8217;ve described the transition in the past: Documents today can have, as IBM’s Doug Heintzman noted last Wednesday at IBM’s annual analyst [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] becoming obsolete in a variety of settings. Here&#8217;s how I&#8217;ve described the transition in the past: Documents today can have, as IBM’s Doug Heintzman noted last Wednesday at IBM’s annual analyst [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tecosystems &#187; Embedding Your Way to Collaboration: Not There Yet</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-509924</link>
		<dc:creator>tecosystems &#187; Embedding Your Way to Collaboration: Not There Yet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-509924</guid>
		<description>[...] be able to work on the content in place on the blog; we&#8217;re still struggling to understand what a document is in an age of web pages, remember. But it can&#8217;t be debated that the embedded mechanisms do [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be able to work on the content in place on the blog; we&#8217;re still struggling to understand what a document is in an age of web pages, remember. But it can&#8217;t be debated that the embedded mechanisms do [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Boycott Novell &#187; ODF Alliance Newsletter - 10 December 2008</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-499546</link>
		<dc:creator>Boycott Novell &#187; ODF Alliance Newsletter - 10 December 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-499546</guid>
		<description>[...] What’s a Document? [Stephen O’Grady, RedMonk] http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What’s a Document? [Stephen O’Grady, RedMonk] <a href="http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/" >http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Governor</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-495398</link>
		<dc:creator>James Governor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-495398</guid>
		<description>a document only has one role- attestation. a document is a dead thing that captures an agreement at a point in time. a document is a mere snapshot. 

the idea of &quot;active documents&quot; leaves me cold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a document only has one role- attestation. a document is a dead thing that captures an agreement at a point in time. a document is a mere snapshot. </p>
<p>the idea of &#8220;active documents&#8221; leaves me cold.</p>
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		<title>By: TesserId</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-495350</link>
		<dc:creator>TesserId</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-495350</guid>
		<description>Well, I wrote that too fast.  Please forgive the various grammatical errors and such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I wrote that too fast.  Please forgive the various grammatical errors and such.</p>
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		<title>By: TesserId</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-495349</link>
		<dc:creator>TesserId</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-495349</guid>
		<description>Let us not allow our applications to define our language.

Regular folk are going to need a word that refers to a particular collection of words that are gathered to a particular purpose, and word is &quot;Document&quot;.  Don&#039;t take that away just because applications are changing.

And, what is changing? The file and data formats.  So, say &quot;file and data formats&quot;.  

The whole mistake was assuming that the terms &quot;document&quot; and &quot;document file&quot; was synonymous.  There not.  

So, our data formats for documents are changing and will surely end up as some distributed collection of dynamic content.  What you&#039;re looking for is a new word for a collection that represents such a distributed dynamic document.  

So, these &quot;DynaDocs&quot; or &quot;DistDocs&quot; or &quot;CollectoDocs&quot; are just a new data format.  Let&#039;s not have another Buzz-Word Bandwagon that looks down upon those of us who continue to use words according to their traditional meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us not allow our applications to define our language.</p>
<p>Regular folk are going to need a word that refers to a particular collection of words that are gathered to a particular purpose, and word is &#8220;Document&#8221;.  Don&#8217;t take that away just because applications are changing.</p>
<p>And, what is changing? The file and data formats.  So, say &#8220;file and data formats&#8221;.  </p>
<p>The whole mistake was assuming that the terms &#8220;document&#8221; and &#8220;document file&#8221; was synonymous.  There not.  </p>
<p>So, our data formats for documents are changing and will surely end up as some distributed collection of dynamic content.  What you&#8217;re looking for is a new word for a collection that represents such a distributed dynamic document.  </p>
<p>So, these &#8220;DynaDocs&#8221; or &#8220;DistDocs&#8221; or &#8220;CollectoDocs&#8221; are just a new data format.  Let&#8217;s not have another Buzz-Word Bandwagon that looks down upon those of us who continue to use words according to their traditional meaning.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Vandenberg</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-495115</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Vandenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-495115</guid>
		<description>For our internal programming projects, nearly all of our &quot;documentation&quot; these days is wiki pages. Previously (3 years ago) it was nearly all Word docs. Easy to see which has a better chance of being updated as requirements change.

We produce lots of &quot;documentation&quot;, but little of it in discrete &quot;documents&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For our internal programming projects, nearly all of our &#8220;documentation&#8221; these days is wiki pages. Previously (3 years ago) it was nearly all Word docs. Easy to see which has a better chance of being updated as requirements change.</p>
<p>We produce lots of &#8220;documentation&#8221;, but little of it in discrete &#8220;documents&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Bailey</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-495075</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-495075</guid>
		<description>One aspect of &#039;legacy-style&#039; documents that you did not touch on is the common need for accountability and tracking as the content develops. It&#039;s not unusual to need to be able to see a history: who changed what and when, and what did the content look like after they had done so.

Different users and organizations have different requirements in this space. Those who place very high priority on such tracking will inevitably continue to use static document formats into the foreseeable future, just as legal folks today will send around fully rasterised PDFs of important documents in the belief that those are more reliable and trustworthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One aspect of &#8216;legacy-style&#8217; documents that you did not touch on is the common need for accountability and tracking as the content develops. It&#8217;s not unusual to need to be able to see a history: who changed what and when, and what did the content look like after they had done so.</p>
<p>Different users and organizations have different requirements in this space. Those who place very high priority on such tracking will inevitably continue to use static document formats into the foreseeable future, just as legal folks today will send around fully rasterised PDFs of important documents in the belief that those are more reliable and trustworthy.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Anderson</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/11/24/whats-a-document/comment-page-1/#comment-494754</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2529#comment-494754</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been investigating the term &quot;document&quot; for the last few months, as I&#039;ve been writing the forthcoming O&#039;Reilly book on CouchDB, which is ostensibly a document database.

While it&#039;s use of the term is inspired by Lotus Notes (which itself produces the &quot;post-documents&quot; that you are writing about here) I think the term is quite helpful in the technical context. In distinguishing between what tools like CouchDB, Notes, and Google Docs manage, and the normalized data patterns we deal with in the relational database world, the notion of a document as a relatively stand-alone piece of data holds some water. 

As you mention - documents, like web pages, are getting more intertwined with dynamic data sources, but they are still much closer to their archaic paper and PDF counterparts, than the rows and tables of a SQL store. The singular feature we&#039;ve picked out, in writing the book, is that documents are meant to (more or less) make sense on their own. Documents carry at least some of their own context. This is why documents (like web pages) can travel well. Taking them away from their original location does not strip the meaning from them. This does not hold for a SQL row.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been investigating the term &#8220;document&#8221; for the last few months, as I&#8217;ve been writing the forthcoming O&#8217;Reilly book on CouchDB, which is ostensibly a document database.</p>
<p>While it&#8217;s use of the term is inspired by Lotus Notes (which itself produces the &#8220;post-documents&#8221; that you are writing about here) I think the term is quite helpful in the technical context. In distinguishing between what tools like CouchDB, Notes, and Google Docs manage, and the normalized data patterns we deal with in the relational database world, the notion of a document as a relatively stand-alone piece of data holds some water. </p>
<p>As you mention &#8211; documents, like web pages, are getting more intertwined with dynamic data sources, but they are still much closer to their archaic paper and PDF counterparts, than the rows and tables of a SQL store. The singular feature we&#8217;ve picked out, in writing the book, is that documents are meant to (more or less) make sense on their own. Documents carry at least some of their own context. This is why documents (like web pages) can travel well. Taking them away from their original location does not strip the meaning from them. This does not hold for a SQL row.</p>
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