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	<title>Comments on: Dynamic Languages and IDEs: What&#8217;s the Market?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/</link>
	<description>because technology is just another ecosystem</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: IDE&#8217;s and Dynamic Languages at Ted Leung on the Air</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/#comment-437103</link>
		<dc:creator>IDE&#8217;s and Dynamic Languages at Ted Leung on the Air</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2090#comment-437103</guid>
		<description>[...] about two weeks ago, Stephen O&#8217;Grady was wondering about the market for IDE&#8217;s for dynamic languages. His post followed on Sun&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about two weeks ago, Stephen O&#8217;Grady was wondering about the market for IDE&#8217;s for dynamic languages. His post followed on Sun&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Fabiani</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/#comment-432057</link>
		<dc:creator>John Fabiani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2090#comment-432057</guid>
		<description>I use an IDE daily (wing) and I use python so I look forward to seeing something that will support python.  But I wonder if someone like SUN will do it right.  Will it support debugging of lib's like wxPython and similar lib's.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use an IDE daily (wing) and I use python so I look forward to seeing something that will support python.  But I wonder if someone like SUN will do it right.  Will it support debugging of lib&#8217;s like wxPython and similar lib&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrey</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/#comment-431443</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2090#comment-431443</guid>
		<description>As far as I understand Paul Ford, the most valuable IDE functions are like "go to declaration" and "find references". I agree.

These very functions are hard to provide for dynamic languages where modules being included may depend on runtime values and so on.

IDEs do not do this kind of stuff well even for statically typed languages. For example, for a method of a base class, the basic "go to function body from a function cal" normally leads to the base class method, even when it is abstract. I do not know a single IDE that would do anything useful, like offer a list of possible overrides. 

Thus, IDEs should improve to become a must have for dynamic language developpers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I understand Paul Ford, the most valuable IDE functions are like &#8220;go to declaration&#8221; and &#8220;find references&#8221;. I agree.</p>
<p>These very functions are hard to provide for dynamic languages where modules being included may depend on runtime values and so on.</p>
<p>IDEs do not do this kind of stuff well even for statically typed languages. For example, for a method of a base class, the basic &#8220;go to function body from a function cal&#8221; normally leads to the base class method, even when it is abstract. I do not know a single IDE that would do anything useful, like offer a list of possible overrides. </p>
<p>Thus, IDEs should improve to become a must have for dynamic language developpers.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Boycott Novell &#187; IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 11th, 2008</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/#comment-431346</link>
		<dc:creator>Boycott Novell &#187; IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 11th, 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 07:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2090#comment-431346</guid>
		<description>[...] Mental note: &#8220;Eclipse, Microsoft, Sun and Zend are RedMonk customers, while ActiveState (Komodo) and MacroMates (TextMate) are not.&#8221; http://redmonk.com/so&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mental note: &#8220;Eclipse, Microsoft, Sun and Zend are RedMonk customers, while ActiveState (Komodo) and MacroMates (TextMate) are not.&#8221; <a href="http://redmonk.com/so&#8230" >http://redmonk.com/so&#8230</a>; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ford</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/#comment-431106</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2090#comment-431106</guid>
		<description>I don't see it as an either-or situation when it comes to the IDE/text editor split. I prefer working in a text editor for most everything. But I find myself using NetBeans when I'm coding in lesser-known territory--for me, this includes JavaScript, and I've been loving the new JavaScript support NetBeans offers, in particular the context-driven pop-up documentation. It is very detailed, and very useful, for someone who does not understand all the subtleties of that language. Between that and FireBug I feel almost competent.

The competition for a large IDE is not the text editor itself as much as "the text editor combined with Google searching." I.e. it's not keystrokes that matter as much as context--if an IDE can offer me greater speed and a more thorough understanding of my own code than a text editor/Google search combination, it should be win handily. NetBeans does this with Java

One thing that might help would be large libraries of easily accessible sample code (i.e. Java Almanac or JavaScript Cookbook-style materials) baked into a product--a few thousand code snippets organized by theme that I could borrow and adapt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see it as an either-or situation when it comes to the IDE/text editor split. I prefer working in a text editor for most everything. But I find myself using NetBeans when I&#8217;m coding in lesser-known territory&#8211;for me, this includes JavaScript, and I&#8217;ve been loving the new JavaScript support NetBeans offers, in particular the context-driven pop-up documentation. It is very detailed, and very useful, for someone who does not understand all the subtleties of that language. Between that and FireBug I feel almost competent.</p>
<p>The competition for a large IDE is not the text editor itself as much as &#8220;the text editor combined with Google searching.&#8221; I.e. it&#8217;s not keystrokes that matter as much as context&#8211;if an IDE can offer me greater speed and a more thorough understanding of my own code than a text editor/Google search combination, it should be win handily. NetBeans does this with Java</p>
<p>One thing that might help would be large libraries of easily accessible sample code (i.e. Java Almanac or JavaScript Cookbook-style materials) baked into a product&#8211;a few thousand code snippets organized by theme that I could borrow and adapt.</p>
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		<title>By: Stomfi</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/#comment-430725</link>
		<dc:creator>Stomfi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2090#comment-430725</guid>
		<description>I like to use an IDE that no one ever seems to talk about.

It is the cross platform IDE called Runtime Revolution that I run on Linux (or MAC or Windows if I used them) because I can use the extremely simple runrev Transcript language for mouse and other events, and from each event script launch any other program or foreign script than will return results directly to a runrev variable or field, or pop the results into a file that runrev can use for further processing down the line.

Runtime Revolution builds a runtime with the embedded runtime engine making a program of about 2MB. One only needs one runtime if the primary stack is a menu. All other application stacks can be stand alone or linked and amount to very little space on the hard drive.

It is the only easy to use IDE that I have discovered that can embed UNIX/Linux shell commands, which I find the easiest  way of performing complex information processing on the fly. If the commands are written as scripts instead of directly embedding them, there is no need to rebuild the runtime if changes have to be made to the processing.

Runtimes are license free, meaning the creator can charge or give them away for free.

A visit to Runtime Revolution will show the potential user that it will do anything the others do, without the overhead of learning a formal programming language.
In fact Transcript is so cognitive, using it is often called "Programming at the speed of thought", something only previously possible to non programmers via the various UNIX/Linux shells and their tools.

I'd like to see RedMonk do an article on this IDE for the benefit of ordinary power users.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like to use an IDE that no one ever seems to talk about.</p>
<p>It is the cross platform IDE called Runtime Revolution that I run on Linux (or MAC or Windows if I used them) because I can use the extremely simple runrev Transcript language for mouse and other events, and from each event script launch any other program or foreign script than will return results directly to a runrev variable or field, or pop the results into a file that runrev can use for further processing down the line.</p>
<p>Runtime Revolution builds a runtime with the embedded runtime engine making a program of about 2MB. One only needs one runtime if the primary stack is a menu. All other application stacks can be stand alone or linked and amount to very little space on the hard drive.</p>
<p>It is the only easy to use IDE that I have discovered that can embed UNIX/Linux shell commands, which I find the easiest  way of performing complex information processing on the fly. If the commands are written as scripts instead of directly embedding them, there is no need to rebuild the runtime if changes have to be made to the processing.</p>
<p>Runtimes are license free, meaning the creator can charge or give them away for free.</p>
<p>A visit to Runtime Revolution will show the potential user that it will do anything the others do, without the overhead of learning a formal programming language.<br />
In fact Transcript is so cognitive, using it is often called &#8220;Programming at the speed of thought&#8221;, something only previously possible to non programmers via the various UNIX/Linux shells and their tools.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see RedMonk do an article on this IDE for the benefit of ordinary power users.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: webscale</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/07/09/dynamic_language_ides/#comment-429849</link>
		<dc:creator>webscale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 05:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/?p=2090#comment-429849</guid>
		<description>Is sun any relevant now:
 - 7.5 Billion in Market cap (6 year low)
 - J2ME becoming irrelevant after android and iphone
 - People like Amazon coming into the market and taking the bottom slice (startups) of the computing market and the top slice already taken by IBM and HP.
 - a stubborn approach to software products  Openoffice? Netbeans ? 
 - A Glashfish app server that I have been hearing about for the last 3 years.

My guess is that SUN is will spit and bought out by different parties (Oracle might buy its software business and HP its hardware business). I am sure Don is making that deal come through in HP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is sun any relevant now:<br />
 - 7.5 Billion in Market cap (6 year low)<br />
 - J2ME becoming irrelevant after android and iphone<br />
 - People like Amazon coming into the market and taking the bottom slice (startups) of the computing market and the top slice already taken by IBM and HP.<br />
 - a stubborn approach to software products  Openoffice? Netbeans ?<br />
 - A Glashfish app server that I have been hearing about for the last 3 years.</p>
<p>My guess is that SUN is will spit and bought out by different parties (Oracle might buy its software business and HP its hardware business). I am sure Don is making that deal come through in HP</p>
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