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	<title>Comments on: Fedora 8: Close, But No Cigar</title>
	<atom:link href="http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/</link>
	<description>because technology is just another ecosystem</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 04:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-447137</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 20:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-447137</guid>
		<description>Regarding your statement about not being able to modprobe in Fedora... as a previous commenter said, this is simply an issue with your path. This is a linux "feature" and has nothing to do with Fedora itself.

Consider this:

*** The below command make you become root, but does NOT inherit root's environment variables. Modprobe, ifconfig, etc, would all require a full path.
$ su

**** The below command makes you root AND gives you root's environment, namely $PATH/
$  su -


So try that... simply add the space-hyphen after su, and then modprobe and other will work without any additional work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your statement about not being able to modprobe in Fedora&#8230; as a previous commenter said, this is simply an issue with your path. This is a linux &#8220;feature&#8221; and has nothing to do with Fedora itself.</p>
<p>Consider this:</p>
<p>*** The below command make you become root, but does NOT inherit root&#8217;s environment variables. Modprobe, ifconfig, etc, would all require a full path.<br />
$ su</p>
<p>**** The below command makes you root AND gives you root&#8217;s environment, namely $PATH/<br />
$  su -</p>
<p>So try that&#8230; simply add the space-hyphen after su, and then modprobe and other will work without any additional work.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Daley</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-243825</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Daley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-243825</guid>
		<description>Urca,

It is clear you have worked out some of the finer points of QEMU/KVM to solve problems that users such as Stephen O'Grady and myself have experienced.

I have been using Fedora for 2 years as my main desktop OS, so I can get around the OS okay. However QEMU/KVM presented so many problems I gave up and went back to using VMware Server.

Would you have, or be able to direct us to a URL that has a good HOWTO on setting up QEMU/KVM on Fedora?

I followed the guide here: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&#38;item=656&#38;num=1 but once I started trying to install a Guest OS I had repeated problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Urca,</p>
<p>It is clear you have worked out some of the finer points of QEMU/KVM to solve problems that users such as Stephen O&#8217;Grady and myself have experienced.</p>
<p>I have been using Fedora for 2 years as my main desktop OS, so I can get around the OS okay. However QEMU/KVM presented so many problems I gave up and went back to using VMware Server.</p>
<p>Would you have, or be able to direct us to a URL that has a good HOWTO on setting up QEMU/KVM on Fedora?</p>
<p>I followed the guide here: <a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&amp;item=656&amp;num=1" >http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&amp;item=656&amp;num=1</a> but once I started trying to install a Guest OS I had repeated problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Urca Braz</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-242453</link>
		<dc:creator>Urca Braz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-242453</guid>
		<description>P.S.:  use the 'virsh' command-line utility to do things that the virt-manager won't do.  (Using the direct QEMU console opened on /dev/pts/NNN is also useful.)

At various points during exploration I was not fully happy with resulting virtual machines definitions that virt-manager automatically generated.

You can use "virsh undefine VM_NAME", "virsh dumpxml VM_NAME", "virsh define VM_DEF_FILE.xml", and various others to remove/add/edit virtual machine definitions (e.g., to boot up cdrom-liveCD-rescue-disk instead of from hard drive, to mount additional hard drives on VM), start/stop networks, etc.  You'll need to learn the XML format for VM definitions.

Also useful is the QEMU console where you can issue commands to the virtual machine's virtual hardware drivers (?) to change mounted CD-ROM images, send special key combinations, etc.  (use commands such as 'echo "sendkey ctrl+alt+delete" &#62; /dev/pts/3' and then 'cat /dev/pts/3' + CTRL-C to see results).  There's a trick to finding the /dev/pts/NNN the particular virtual machine is listening on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.:  use the &#8216;virsh&#8217; command-line utility to do things that the virt-manager won&#8217;t do.  (Using the direct QEMU console opened on /dev/pts/NNN is also useful.)</p>
<p>At various points during exploration I was not fully happy with resulting virtual machines definitions that virt-manager automatically generated.</p>
<p>You can use &#8220;virsh undefine VM_NAME&#8221;, &#8220;virsh dumpxml VM_NAME&#8221;, &#8220;virsh define VM_DEF_FILE.xml&#8221;, and various others to remove/add/edit virtual machine definitions (e.g., to boot up cdrom-liveCD-rescue-disk instead of from hard drive, to mount additional hard drives on VM), start/stop networks, etc.  You&#8217;ll need to learn the XML format for VM definitions.</p>
<p>Also useful is the QEMU console where you can issue commands to the virtual machine&#8217;s virtual hardware drivers (?) to change mounted CD-ROM images, send special key combinations, etc.  (use commands such as &#8216;echo &#8220;sendkey ctrl+alt+delete&#8221; &gt; /dev/pts/3&#8242; and then &#8216;cat /dev/pts/3&#8242; + CTRL-C to see results).  There&#8217;s a trick to finding the /dev/pts/NNN the particular virtual machine is listening on.</p>
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		<title>By: Urca Braz</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-242442</link>
		<dc:creator>Urca Braz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-242442</guid>
		<description>QEMU/KVM virtualization works very well in Fedora 8 ... just not for the latest OSes (Vista, etc.).  It will improve over time.

Using Virtual Machine Manager, libvirtd, qemu, and KVM I have a complete firewalled "corporate IT" system running on a quad-core 8GB Intel-VT machine:

 [A] 5 separate internal networks
 [B] one being an internal Windows network
     with a WinXP and 3 separate
     Win2003-Server machines (and I can even
     VPN to this network from outside the
     real physical hosting box)
 [C] running CentOS, Fedora on other machines
 [D] 10 virtual machines defined, 6 typically running
 [E] beautiful performance
 [F] all machines fully hardware-accelerated
    (both i386/i686 and x86_64)

I'd like to install a fully emulated sparc-based Solaris 10 (or even Solaris 9) OS ... then I'd be happy.  A full software dev/demo environment, a hosting platform for multiple websites on different external IP addresses.  Fully firewalled.

It's a pain to figure what works but it's beautiful once you get the hang of it, much better than Xen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>QEMU/KVM virtualization works very well in Fedora 8 &#8230; just not for the latest OSes (Vista, etc.).  It will improve over time.</p>
<p>Using Virtual Machine Manager, libvirtd, qemu, and KVM I have a complete firewalled &#8220;corporate IT&#8221; system running on a quad-core 8GB Intel-VT machine:</p>
<p> [A] 5 separate internal networks<br />
 [B] one being an internal Windows network<br />
     with a WinXP and 3 separate<br />
     Win2003-Server machines (and I can even<br />
     VPN to this network from outside the<br />
     real physical hosting box)<br />
 [C] running CentOS, Fedora on other machines<br />
 [D] 10 virtual machines defined, 6 typically running<br />
 [E] beautiful performance<br />
 [F] all machines fully hardware-accelerated<br />
    (both i386/i686 and x86_64)</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to install a fully emulated sparc-based Solaris 10 (or even Solaris 9) OS &#8230; then I&#8217;d be happy.  A full software dev/demo environment, a hosting platform for multiple websites on different external IP addresses.  Fully firewalled.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a pain to figure what works but it&#8217;s beautiful once you get the hang of it, much better than Xen.</p>
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		<title>By: tecosystems &#187; Friday Grab Bag</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238739</link>
		<dc:creator>tecosystems &#187; Friday Grab Bag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238739</guid>
		<description>[...] Occasionally, I&#8217;m reminded of this, as was the case this week when this week&#8217;s Fedora piece was linked to by Linux.com, Linuxtoday, and Tuxmachines. Between them, they sent over somewhere [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Occasionally, I&#8217;m reminded of this, as was the case this week when this week&#8217;s Fedora piece was linked to by Linux.com, Linuxtoday, and Tuxmachines. Between them, they sent over somewhere [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bobblehead</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238611</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobblehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238611</guid>
		<description>I had the opportunity to use both VMware and Fedora's virtualization tools. To be honest Fedora's tools are just plain bad. Trying to sugar coat this to make FOSS look good just doesnt help anyone. It won't help the devs make it better, it just downplays the problems. 

Because VMware is stable and most OSes just work, I have no problems using it. FYI server 2008 IS labled experimental so there will almost always be issues associated with that. BSODs are common at that point.

Virtual Box is great for some uses, but they don't always support features that VMware does like x64 multi-CPU, SCSI disk support (if you need that). 

Fedora's Xen based Virtualization is not exactly up to snuff. The underlying technology has potential, but the mangement tools are still lacking alot of polish and usability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the opportunity to use both VMware and Fedora&#8217;s virtualization tools. To be honest Fedora&#8217;s tools are just plain bad. Trying to sugar coat this to make FOSS look good just doesnt help anyone. It won&#8217;t help the devs make it better, it just downplays the problems. </p>
<p>Because VMware is stable and most OSes just work, I have no problems using it. FYI server 2008 IS labled experimental so there will almost always be issues associated with that. BSODs are common at that point.</p>
<p>Virtual Box is great for some uses, but they don&#8217;t always support features that VMware does like x64 multi-CPU, SCSI disk support (if you need that). </p>
<p>Fedora&#8217;s Xen based Virtualization is not exactly up to snuff. The underlying technology has potential, but the mangement tools are still lacking alot of polish and usability.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie Satenstein</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238514</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie Satenstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238514</guid>
		<description>When the only tool you have is a hammer (UBUNTU), every solution looks like a nail(UBUNTU). That is, the author wants Fedora to be another nail. to respect UBUNTU's file naming and menu structures.  
But perhaps it is UBUNTU that renamed the files, and Fedora did not, If both renamed them, then that adds to complicating his comparison.

Normally, if I am not an expert in a field, and if I did  not know precisely what I was doing, I would contact, via the web forums, someone who had been through the experience beforehand. 

My view is that the author suffered from stress due to time constraints, and could not do his analysis as it should have been done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the only tool you have is a hammer (UBUNTU), every solution looks like a nail(UBUNTU). That is, the author wants Fedora to be another nail. to respect UBUNTU&#8217;s file naming and menu structures.<br />
But perhaps it is UBUNTU that renamed the files, and Fedora did not, If both renamed them, then that adds to complicating his comparison.</p>
<p>Normally, if I am not an expert in a field, and if I did  not know precisely what I was doing, I would contact, via the web forums, someone who had been through the experience beforehand. </p>
<p>My view is that the author suffered from stress due to time constraints, and could not do his analysis as it should have been done.</p>
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		<title>By: Linux Tips</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238273</link>
		<dc:creator>Linux Tips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-238273</guid>
		<description>Vmware server is in Gutsy now. 

Add to sources.list 
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu gutsy partner

apt-get install vmware-server</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vmware server is in Gutsy now. </p>
<p>Add to sources.list<br />
deb <a href="http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu" >http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu</a> gutsy partner</p>
<p>apt-get install vmware-server</p>
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		<title>By: nobodie</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-237954</link>
		<dc:creator>nobodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-237954</guid>
		<description>I use both ubuntu and fedora, as well as something called Vector Linux. I also have used a variety of virtuals in different boxes and with different host systems. I agree with some of the comments above that take issue with some of this writer's points. 
First: Ubuntu is built on Debian, which is to say it uses an older and more stable kernel than Fedora, as well as using more polished and stable versions of other programs. TYhis was its credo from the beginning: to provide a stable and trouble-free system for people who wanted to consider moving into the Linux world.
Fedora was started as a "bleeding edge" project to test new and potentially unstable products, kernels and ideas for RHEL. Clearly Fedora is riskier and more prone to crashes, failures and problems than Ubuntu, it is part of the risk, part of the allure. 

So, to compare them is, IMHO, completely mistaken.

Second: the virtuals are also different products with sometimes different end market goals. I agree with the poster above who mentioned Virtual Box. While Xen is a good server choice for real-world production, for myself, doing little projects that require a working instance of WIndows, VB is easier to setup, destroy, rebuild and mess with. The community support is outstanding and the project is building an excellent product that is aware of freedom and freedom issues. or most of the world VB is a good solution at the moment&#62; Caveat? everythinjg is changing fast, so next week I might have a different opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use both ubuntu and fedora, as well as something called Vector Linux. I also have used a variety of virtuals in different boxes and with different host systems. I agree with some of the comments above that take issue with some of this writer&#8217;s points.<br />
First: Ubuntu is built on Debian, which is to say it uses an older and more stable kernel than Fedora, as well as using more polished and stable versions of other programs. TYhis was its credo from the beginning: to provide a stable and trouble-free system for people who wanted to consider moving into the Linux world.<br />
Fedora was started as a &#8220;bleeding edge&#8221; project to test new and potentially unstable products, kernels and ideas for RHEL. Clearly Fedora is riskier and more prone to crashes, failures and problems than Ubuntu, it is part of the risk, part of the allure. </p>
<p>So, to compare them is, IMHO, completely mistaken.</p>
<p>Second: the virtuals are also different products with sometimes different end market goals. I agree with the poster above who mentioned Virtual Box. While Xen is a good server choice for real-world production, for myself, doing little projects that require a working instance of WIndows, VB is easier to setup, destroy, rebuild and mess with. The community support is outstanding and the project is building an excellent product that is aware of freedom and freedom issues. or most of the world VB is a good solution at the moment&gt; Caveat? everythinjg is changing fast, so next week I might have a different opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Fedora 8 Virtual Machine Manager a &#8216;total failure&#8217; &#8212; Enterprise Linux Log</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-237336</link>
		<dc:creator>Fedora 8 Virtual Machine Manager a &#8216;total failure&#8217; &#8212; Enterprise Linux Log</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/12/04/fedora-8-close-but-no-cigar/#comment-237336</guid>
		<description>[...] For the complete text, click here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For the complete text, click here. [...]</p>
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