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	<title>Comments on: Too Rich For My Taste: The RIA Q&#038;A</title>
	<atom:link href="http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/</link>
	<description>because technology is just another ecosystem</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DailyDigital &#187; Blog Archive &#187; M$ forcing Silverlight onto people?</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-401156</link>
		<dc:creator>DailyDigital &#187; Blog Archive &#187; M$ forcing Silverlight onto people?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-401156</guid>
		<description>[...] it. I see no real reason too, in the short term&#8230;this is an interesting quote, though, from an article linked to this one: “The browser is the new desktop and Microsoft is hoping that the CLR and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it. I see no real reason too, in the short term&#8230;this is an interesting quote, though, from an article linked to this one: “The browser is the new desktop and Microsoft is hoping that the CLR and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Microsoft to See Silverlight Installed on Millions of HP Computers &#124; 网络赚钱网摘</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-400751</link>
		<dc:creator>Microsoft to See Silverlight Installed on Millions of HP Computers &#124; 网络赚钱网摘</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-400751</guid>
		<description>[...] For a more skeptical perspective on the whole field of Rich Internet Applications, see Stephen O'Grady's very good RIA Q&#38;A. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For a more skeptical perspective on the whole field of Rich Internet Applications, see Stephen O&#8217;Grady&#8217;s very good RIA Q&amp;A. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tecosystems &#187; Adobe: The Good, The Bad, and the Both - The Q&#38;A</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-178756</link>
		<dc:creator>tecosystems &#187; Adobe: The Good, The Bad, and the Both - The Q&#38;A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-178756</guid>
		<description>[...] keep an open mind on the subject, as I see applications here and there that are interesting, but I remain skeptical of the promise on any kind of a volume basis. RIA evangelists and advocates always remind me that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] keep an open mind on the subject, as I see applications here and there that are interesting, but I remain skeptical of the promise on any kind of a volume basis. RIA evangelists and advocates always remind me that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pete F</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-102504</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-102504</guid>
		<description>here's an alternate ending...

flash,silverlight and (curiously late entrant)javafx fight it out

my pick for a winner would be microsoft, except a funny thing happens..

in this desperate race, someone hits on the idea of supporting a markup protocol called html  -you may have heard of it

they figure a) the more grist they can find for their mill the better  -b)they can extend html to include their native markup, thus creating a glide path

suddenly they find that throughput of "native" markup is dwarfed by html, and they are the new web browser on the block, eating IE share from the inside out

the other RIA platforms have to follow suit, even if they desperately don't want to

***at this point we realise the the whole RIA fuss was all due to the arrested development of html  -arrested by microsoft using the market share of IE  -and who can blame them when everything they do for IE is a gift for google et al***

but now the brakes are off  -using IE as your browser no longer means that IE is your browser

i can author a page in html and nominate the browser plugin to render it

i can write a rich client app in java that does for real, what google web toolkit only fakes (a java html browser) 

html goes from its current state of "well that's nice but if IE doesn't do it then.."    to    "i never thought i would be writing to your magazine"

the html standard rockets forward to fill that same vacuum that RIAs plan to fill

which ushers in an html renaissance

and that little paperclip thing in office turns into a real boy and ends poverty by making low cost keyboards with just one key that allow 26 poor people to work collaboratively 

and we wake up and it turns out to be all just a dream</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here&#8217;s an alternate ending&#8230;</p>
<p>flash,silverlight and (curiously late entrant)javafx fight it out</p>
<p>my pick for a winner would be microsoft, except a funny thing happens..</p>
<p>in this desperate race, someone hits on the idea of supporting a markup protocol called html  -you may have heard of it</p>
<p>they figure a) the more grist they can find for their mill the better  -b)they can extend html to include their native markup, thus creating a glide path</p>
<p>suddenly they find that throughput of &#8220;native&#8221; markup is dwarfed by html, and they are the new web browser on the block, eating IE share from the inside out</p>
<p>the other RIA platforms have to follow suit, even if they desperately don&#8217;t want to</p>
<p>***at this point we realise the the whole RIA fuss was all due to the arrested development of html  -arrested by microsoft using the market share of IE  -and who can blame them when everything they do for IE is a gift for google et al***</p>
<p>but now the brakes are off  -using IE as your browser no longer means that IE is your browser</p>
<p>i can author a page in html and nominate the browser plugin to render it</p>
<p>i can write a rich client app in java that does for real, what google web toolkit only fakes (a java html browser) </p>
<p>html goes from its current state of &#8220;well that&#8217;s nice but if IE doesn&#8217;t do it then..&#8221;    to    &#8220;i never thought i would be writing to your magazine&#8221;</p>
<p>the html standard rockets forward to fill that same vacuum that RIAs plan to fill</p>
<p>which ushers in an html renaissance</p>
<p>and that little paperclip thing in office turns into a real boy and ends poverty by making low cost keyboards with just one key that allow 26 poor people to work collaboratively </p>
<p>and we wake up and it turns out to be all just a dream</p>
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		<title>By: Chui&#8217;s counterpoint &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Silverlight May Yet Displace HTML</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-97352</link>
		<dc:creator>Chui&#8217;s counterpoint &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Silverlight May Yet Displace HTML</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 10:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-97352</guid>
		<description>[...] a live discussion over at sogrady&#8217;s blog whether RIA&#8217;s will ever gain a foothold on the web. Stephen points out that HTML had been [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a live discussion over at sogrady&#8217;s blog whether RIA&#8217;s will ever gain a foothold on the web. Stephen points out that HTML had been [...]</p>
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		<title>By: No need to go beyond the browser &#171; Software (Ad)Venturing</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-94390</link>
		<dc:creator>No need to go beyond the browser &#171; Software (Ad)Venturing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 17:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-94390</guid>
		<description>[...] Applications bring a new dimension of richness to web applications. While there are some who are skeptical about RIA value for end users there are others who beleive that it is the Future Direction of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Applications bring a new dimension of richness to web applications. While there are some who are skeptical about RIA value for end users there are others who beleive that it is the Future Direction of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chui</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-93252</link>
		<dc:creator>Chui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 04:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-93252</guid>
		<description>Asbjørn,

I'm all for better standards, all else being equal.  The reality is until the VMs are on users desktops, they are quite irrelevant. XForms was talked about back in 1999, and where we are today? Hacked up javascript manipulating DOM divs.

Stephen,

I can't argue with statistics. :) You are absolutely right.  HTML beat Flash hands down in sheer deployment figures.  

But this is like saying 99% of phone usage is around people talking to each other, and not IVR. HTML is to the browser what the mouth is to the telephone. 

It's not useful to claim HTML is beating other platforms on the browser because HTML defines the browser and the browser defines HTML. 

The real question is: what kinds of applications are we not seeing more of on the web, and why not? For instance, uploading photos is still a pain on HTML. Another example is serious data entry apps, with lots of validation screens. How many times do you encounter a screen that says "please press submit once, or your credit card will be charged twice?". You can't develop a serious line of business app (Bank teller app for instance) if your operators risk making that kind of errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asbjørn,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for better standards, all else being equal.  The reality is until the VMs are on users desktops, they are quite irrelevant. XForms was talked about back in 1999, and where we are today? Hacked up javascript manipulating DOM divs.</p>
<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t argue with statistics. <img src='http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> You are absolutely right.  HTML beat Flash hands down in sheer deployment figures.  </p>
<p>But this is like saying 99% of phone usage is around people talking to each other, and not IVR. HTML is to the browser what the mouth is to the telephone. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not useful to claim HTML is beating other platforms on the browser because HTML defines the browser and the browser defines HTML. </p>
<p>The real question is: what kinds of applications are we not seeing more of on the web, and why not? For instance, uploading photos is still a pain on HTML. Another example is serious data entry apps, with lots of validation screens. How many times do you encounter a screen that says &#8220;please press submit once, or your credit card will be charged twice?&#8221;. You can&#8217;t develop a serious line of business app (Bank teller app for instance) if your operators risk making that kind of errors.</p>
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		<title>By: Around the web &#124; alexking.org</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-93148</link>
		<dc:creator>Around the web &#124; alexking.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 19:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-93148</guid>
		<description>[...] tecosystems - How Too Rich For My Taste: The RIA Q&#38;A [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tecosystems - How Too Rich For My Taste: The RIA Q&#38;A [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Hilsman</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-92892</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Hilsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 11:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-92892</guid>
		<description>Enjoyed the post. Technically most of it is beyond me. However, I noticed that with the original post and each of the contributor comments, there was an awareness that the end user has a vote. How much horsepower (More or Less) does the application require to meet the user requirements and is within the scope of the developer/host ecosystem. 

Aristotle hosted a discussion on this topic a few years ago and Aunt Daisy continues today to ask, “Why can’t the damn thing just do what I want it to do? Nothing more and nothing less”!

Maintain a list of the SBC product offerings worldwide. Many of them you did not reference in the post and comments. Many are not worth noting, now or perhaps never. But they have presence on the Web and have thrown their hat into the ring</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoyed the post. Technically most of it is beyond me. However, I noticed that with the original post and each of the contributor comments, there was an awareness that the end user has a vote. How much horsepower (More or Less) does the application require to meet the user requirements and is within the scope of the developer/host ecosystem. </p>
<p>Aristotle hosted a discussion on this topic a few years ago and Aunt Daisy continues today to ask, “Why can’t the damn thing just do what I want it to do? Nothing more and nothing less”!</p>
<p>Maintain a list of the SBC product offerings worldwide. Many of them you did not reference in the post and comments. Many are not worth noting, now or perhaps never. But they have presence on the Web and have thrown their hat into the ring</p>
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		<title>By: RIA - is it "Rich Interface Application"? &#171; Software (Ad)Venturing</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-92029</link>
		<dc:creator>RIA - is it "Rich Interface Application"? &#171; Software (Ad)Venturing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 16:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2007/05/23/how-too-rich-for-my-taste-the-ria-qa/#comment-92029</guid>
		<description>[...] Apollo, Desktop, User Experience, New   Stephen O&#8217;Grady of Redmonk has written this good post Too Rich For My Taste: The RIA Q&#38;A questioning the value of Rich Internet Applications to end users. Some of the observations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Apollo, Desktop, User Experience, New   Stephen O&#8217;Grady of Redmonk has written this good post Too Rich For My Taste: The RIA Q&amp;A questioning the value of Rich Internet Applications to end users. Some of the observations [...]</p>
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