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	<title>Comments on: Following Up on Adobe &#38; Linux</title>
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	<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/</link>
	<description>because technology is just another ecosystem</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: steviant</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/#comment-387663</link>
		<dc:creator>steviant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 21:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/?p=1028#comment-387663</guid>
		<description>stephen o'grady:

If only flash on Linux were only two years behind it's Windows and Mac counterparts, it's actually five years behind because Adobe have expressed no apparent interest in fixing a bug with Flash and HTML layers, meaning that many of the sites made in the last few years are unusable on Linux. 

Mozilla have come to the party by fixing the problems that prevented Flash from operating properly, but it's been more than a year since that fix hit trunk and was ready for Adobe to test against. We're now seeing another major release of Flash which doesn't bring parity to Linux systems, which means we're in for at least another two years of no parity for Linux systems. 

Fortunately open source developers working on a Flash reimplementation called swfdec managed to fix this problem in only a few weeks, so it's possible to get a version created competent programmers in spite of Adobe's desire that we be saddled with the incompetence of their one-man Flash Linux development team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stephen o&#8217;grady:</p>
<p>If only flash on Linux were only two years behind it&#8217;s Windows and Mac counterparts, it&#8217;s actually five years behind because Adobe have expressed no apparent interest in fixing a bug with Flash and HTML layers, meaning that many of the sites made in the last few years are unusable on Linux. </p>
<p>Mozilla have come to the party by fixing the problems that prevented Flash from operating properly, but it&#8217;s been more than a year since that fix hit trunk and was ready for Adobe to test against. We&#8217;re now seeing another major release of Flash which doesn&#8217;t bring parity to Linux systems, which means we&#8217;re in for at least another two years of no parity for Linux systems. </p>
<p>Fortunately open source developers working on a Flash reimplementation called swfdec managed to fix this problem in only a few weeks, so it&#8217;s possible to get a version created competent programmers in spite of Adobe&#8217;s desire that we be saddled with the incompetence of their one-man Flash Linux development team.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Dolan</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Dolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/?p=1028#comment-2307</guid>
		<description>Sorry if I missed clear communication on that one but I definitely wasn't advocating they go out on their own and invent something new (inhouse or pushout). I was advocating that they take a leadership position in the community rather than sitting back and waiting for the community to invent/create what Adobe needs. Does Adobe have any representation in Project Portland?

And I don't agree that it's that more difficult to write applications for Linux desktop environments. IBM embarked to put Notes on Linux and picked Eclipse RCP to do it - and delivered it a full year ahead of plan.... the technologies are out there.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry if I missed clear communication on that one but I definitely wasn&#8217;t advocating they go out on their own and invent something new (inhouse or pushout). I was advocating that they take a leadership position in the community rather than sitting back and waiting for the community to invent/create what Adobe needs. Does Adobe have any representation in Project Portland?</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t agree that it&#8217;s that more difficult to write applications for Linux desktop environments. IBM embarked to put Notes on Linux and picked Eclipse RCP to do it - and delivered it a full year ahead of plan&#8230;. the technologies are out there.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen o'grady</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/#comment-2306</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen o'grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/?p=1028#comment-2306</guid>
		<description>Mike: understand the harshness not to mention the frustration, but frankly i'd much rather have Adobe work with the community than set out on their own and reinvent APIs and so on. not sure if that's what you were advocating, but just in case wanted to be clear on that. 

as far as greater Linux desktop efforts, that was something i stressed to one of the private commenters in an email; there is opportunity there, but i'm not sure it's perceived. 

stacy: thx for keeping it top of mind, stacy - every little bit helps ;)

rektide: SDL - wow, haven't heard that one in a while. 

Glynn: it really isn't that i disagree with the notion that the API situation on Linux is hugely complicated - a confirmation of Baus' "Linux is Not Simple" argument. it's more that if you are a platform provider, in my mind you have an obligation to support the platforms that you choose with minimal lag time from one platform to another. if Sun, for example, released Java for Windows and Apple, and the Linux version was over 2 years behind people would scream bloody murder. that's the catch to being a platform provider. 

nobody ever said it was easy, but the obligation is there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike: understand the harshness not to mention the frustration, but frankly i&#8217;d much rather have Adobe work with the community than set out on their own and reinvent APIs and so on. not sure if that&#8217;s what you were advocating, but just in case wanted to be clear on that. </p>
<p>as far as greater Linux desktop efforts, that was something i stressed to one of the private commenters in an email; there is opportunity there, but i&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s perceived. </p>
<p>stacy: thx for keeping it top of mind, stacy - every little bit helps <img src='http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
rektide: SDL - wow, haven&#8217;t heard that one in a while. </p>
<p>Glynn: it really isn&#8217;t that i disagree with the notion that the API situation on Linux is hugely complicated - a confirmation of Baus&#8217; &#8220;Linux is Not Simple&#8221; argument. it&#8217;s more that if you are a platform provider, in my mind you have an obligation to support the platforms that you choose with minimal lag time from one platform to another. if Sun, for example, released Java for Windows and Apple, and the Linux version was over 2 years behind people would scream bloody murder. that&#8217;s the catch to being a platform provider. </p>
<p>nobody ever said it was easy, but the obligation is there.</p>
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		<title>By: Glynn Foster</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/#comment-2305</link>
		<dc:creator>Glynn Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 00:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/?p=1028#comment-2305</guid>
		<description>I don't think you can blame Adobe too much for not dipping its toes a little more into Linux/Unix [though I'd really like to see them port Acrobat to Solaris x86]. I wouldn't say it's an incredibly easy platform to write to, especially given the content of the Penguin.swf blog - I'm much more appreciative of the slow careful choices they are making. My experiences of API use and standardization is that Linux is generally trying to rush too many things out the door, when really a slow evolving approach seems all the more wiser. Maybe it's the Vista window opportunity that's causing all this rush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you can blame Adobe too much for not dipping its toes a little more into Linux/Unix [though I'd really like to see them port Acrobat to Solaris x86]. I wouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s an incredibly easy platform to write to, especially given the content of the Penguin.swf blog - I&#8217;m much more appreciative of the slow careful choices they are making. My experiences of API use and standardization is that Linux is generally trying to rush too many things out the door, when really a slow evolving approach seems all the more wiser. Maybe it&#8217;s the Vista window opportunity that&#8217;s causing all this rush.</p>
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		<title>By: rektide</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/#comment-2304</link>
		<dc:creator>rektide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/?p=1028#comment-2304</guid>
		<description>Xlib is love.  Wait, no, actually its a festering pile of hate.  Ah well, some day toker is gonna finish those xcb.net bindings ( http://www.ndesk.org/xnb ).

If they really wanted to be cross platform, they could write Flash ontop of SDL.  =-]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xlib is love.  Wait, no, actually its a festering pile of hate.  Ah well, some day toker is gonna finish those xcb.net bindings ( <a href="http://www.ndesk.org/xnb" >http://www.ndesk.org/xnb</a> ).</p>
<p>If they really wanted to be cross platform, they could write Flash ontop of SDL.  =-]</p>
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		<title>By: stacy</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/#comment-2303</link>
		<dc:creator>stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/?p=1028#comment-2303</guid>
		<description>slow news day yesterday -- your post prompted me to &lt;a href="http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/breakingnews.jhtml?articleId=192501179" rel="nofollow"&gt;go bug adobe&lt;/a&gt; ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>slow news day yesterday &#8212; your post prompted me to <a href="http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/breakingnews.jhtml?articleId=192501179" >go bug adobe</a> <img src='http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Dolan</title>
		<link>http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2006/09/01/following-up-on-adobe-linux/#comment-2302</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Dolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redmonk.com/sogrady/wp/?p=1028#comment-2302</guid>
		<description>I'm somewhat surprised that Adobe hasn't stepped up more to lead in desktop Linux... It's like they're waiting for someone else to do it. Novell can't do it all alone... and Microsoft has painted a target on Adobe with Vista's new features... 

If I was at Adobe working on their client side products, I'd spend all my time thinking about how I could make desktop Linux work - not complaining about APIs, blogging about issues, or asking "the community" for ideas. Step up and architect/develop the next chunk of bits you need to have that single API to write to. Donate the code back to the community, work with the distros, and actually invest to do something proactive.

The Linux desktop won't take off until Adobe takes charge. It's all opportunity and you have to look at who gains from a Microsoft-less client. Imagine... a client desktop with no Microsoft software on it (unless Stuart Cohen's right...). It's everything Windows ISVs have been asking (or complaining about) for years. Finally Microsoft isn't determining what icons are on the desktop, bundling its own competing software on every desktop, or wooing customers away from you daily with new competitive products...

I don't care if Adobe has blogs complaining or asking for advice on how to do Flash Player on Linux. Adobe needs to get a real Linux desktop strategy together or they'll be the next Symantec... and a real Linux desktop strategy is far more than just Flash Player 9.

Sorry for being harsh.... I'm just frustrated by the lack of true leadership from application providers who stand to get all the benefit. Heck, they could even stop complaining about Mac/Intel performance not matching PowerPC and run their apps on PowerPC Linux.

This is competitive strategy 101 - I'm not sure where Adobe's management team is at on this (maybe they're hatching a master plan now... but I've heard enough to feel they're not). I'd love to have a dialogue with an executive over there.

BTW, this is my explicit personal viewpoint/rant and not that of my employer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m somewhat surprised that Adobe hasn&#8217;t stepped up more to lead in desktop Linux&#8230; It&#8217;s like they&#8217;re waiting for someone else to do it. Novell can&#8217;t do it all alone&#8230; and Microsoft has painted a target on Adobe with Vista&#8217;s new features&#8230; </p>
<p>If I was at Adobe working on their client side products, I&#8217;d spend all my time thinking about how I could make desktop Linux work - not complaining about APIs, blogging about issues, or asking &#8220;the community&#8221; for ideas. Step up and architect/develop the next chunk of bits you need to have that single API to write to. Donate the code back to the community, work with the distros, and actually invest to do something proactive.</p>
<p>The Linux desktop won&#8217;t take off until Adobe takes charge. It&#8217;s all opportunity and you have to look at who gains from a Microsoft-less client. Imagine&#8230; a client desktop with no Microsoft software on it (unless Stuart Cohen&#8217;s right&#8230;). It&#8217;s everything Windows ISVs have been asking (or complaining about) for years. Finally Microsoft isn&#8217;t determining what icons are on the desktop, bundling its own competing software on every desktop, or wooing customers away from you daily with new competitive products&#8230;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care if Adobe has blogs complaining or asking for advice on how to do Flash Player on Linux. Adobe needs to get a real Linux desktop strategy together or they&#8217;ll be the next Symantec&#8230; and a real Linux desktop strategy is far more than just Flash Player 9.</p>
<p>Sorry for being harsh&#8230;. I&#8217;m just frustrated by the lack of true leadership from application providers who stand to get all the benefit. Heck, they could even stop complaining about Mac/Intel performance not matching PowerPC and run their apps on PowerPC Linux.</p>
<p>This is competitive strategy 101 - I&#8217;m not sure where Adobe&#8217;s management team is at on this (maybe they&#8217;re hatching a master plan now&#8230; but I&#8217;ve heard enough to feel they&#8217;re not). I&#8217;d love to have a dialogue with an executive over there.</p>
<p>BTW, this is my explicit personal viewpoint/rant and not that of my employer.</p>
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